Forums - The Northwest Teaches MvC 2 Show all 105 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- The Northwest Teaches MvC 2 (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=35194) Posted by Mix Masta Drew Dub on 08:09:2001 07:06 PM: The Northwest Teaches MvC 2 There has been a whole bunch of post-B5 talk about the northwest, and how well it did. Well, one of the reasons for this is we developed a different style of play from the Cali folks, and the purpose of this thread is to give help and offer insight in regards to our various techniques. To help me with this, and keep the whole NW represented I've called upon the help of a few people: Psianyd: Representing Seattle, he's down with Rat and Thong and all those crazy fools up there in Seattle that did so well. Uhhhhhh. He didn't make it out of his pools at B5, but he beat SooMighty and is probably better than me. StiltMan: Representing Portland, he knows a whole bunch about the game, and is highly opinionated. Also a grumpy old man. He didn't make it out of his pools either, losing to Sloppy. Still probably better than me though, despite being Cammy dependent . Me: Representing the area of Eugene, OR I know a great deal about, well, everything I guess. Sadly I'm the only decent player in my area, but I try to go to as many Seattle and Po-land tourneys as I can. I finished 25th at B5, and I beat such notable SRK personalities as Jinmaster, ID, and Ellwarriors. Also, Ricky Ortiz beat my mouth. I'm not great. That said, ask away! PS I have nothing to do all day, so I'll probably respond pathetically often/quickly. Posted by XPmagus on 08:09:2001 07:47 PM: NW style? I'm from Mount Vernon, WA... about an hour north of Seattle so I'm NW style myself... I'm interested in what you think sets the NW apart from say the way Cali players? XP-Magus Posted by Mister Fixer on 08:09:2001 09:14 PM: Well, my question is... No, wait... I know exactly the NW came out fists a-flying at B5! Cause NW is just too good. Well, except for me. I lost to John Choi. It was shameful, cause I coulda beat him using good old NW-style tactics (Run and gun, Capcom abuse, grenady traps) but I faltered under pressure and got my ass handed to me. Well, so much for B5. Sorry I couldn't stay for Sunday by the way... I would have licked to have seen you play Ricky. The real question is this: Is Eric gonna push you up higher in the rankings? Say, right behind Jackson? Which reminds me of the one thing that pissed me off about those sooper-ghey brackets: Most of the NW players ended up getting eliminated by OTHER NW players! How jank is that? Boo. I mean, I could understand that in say... The semi-semi finals or something, but it happened kinda early the losers bracket. Boo. Damn, Andrew, you missed all the drinking fun at the Hilton Saturday night. That's okay though, cause so did I... But I saw Vishna (sp?) go vomit in the toilet, and that was pretty neat. I shoulda gone to Joe's mom's house and watched bad dvds. Well, I think that's enough incoherent rambling for now. Peace. Posted by StiltMan on 08:10:2001 12:54 AM: Just so everyone knows... yes, I've signed on with Drew Dub to answer questions here. I may not have done as well as I'd have liked at B5, but I understand the game a lot better than I sometimes play it... which is something that sometimes scares Drew over there, because I play it pretty well. XPmagus: One thing that strongly seperates the northwest players from California players is the playing style. The northwest's style is considerably less aggressive than California's, with Cable/Doom/Commando being far and away the most popular team around here. That team's practically unknown outside the northwest. There's a great deal of respect for Commando outside the northwest, but there's neither the creativity nor the amount of exploration you see here. There are a huge number of tricks people have used to make use of him, whether it's as a shield for a side of the board defensively, adding that extra oomph to the middle of a combo, whatever... that you just don't see outside the northwest. The only thing akin to it is the various things Justin Wong will do to throw Cammy into the middle of things in a similar fashion. Justin Wong is the only guy I've seen just throw a power AAA into the middle of a combo to add extra damage to it who isn't from the northwest. There's a lot of Cable playing in the northwest... particularly Cable/Commando. Okay, so that's nothing terribly rare... but the degree to which practically everyone uses it is not often seen outside the northwest, either. Jackson and Rattana are the two best at it. Rattana uses the Cable/Doom/Commando variant that has become so popular in the northwest, being fairly aggressive to trap and get maximum chipping damage out of Doom's rocks. Jackson, on the other hand, prefers Cable/BH/Commando, and goes for an ice-cold runaway game that tends to beat his opponents on sheer frustration value alone. This thread doesn't have to be about just NW play, either... we were all at B5, we've seen it all. Questions can be asked about anything you want, one of us can probably give an intelligent answer. Posted by Chocolate_Rock on 08:10:2001 01:02 AM: Could you guys teach a scrub like me how to not get nervous durin a tournament ? Posted by Mix Masta Drew Dub on 08:10:2001 01:06 AM: quote: Originally posted by Chocolate_Rock Could you guys teach a scrub like me how to not get nervous durin a tournament ? Masturbate Actually I used to get hella nervous during tournaments, I find it helps to talk to your opponent before matches so you can be comfortable around them. After I faught Ricky at B5, I was never nervous again because he was about as good a player as I was going to play. Just knowin that made me more comfortable playing everyone else. Seriously though, masturbate. Posted by Chocolate_Rock on 08:10:2001 01:10 AM: quote: Originally posted by Mix Masta Drew Dub Masturbate *runs off* LMAO!!! Good tip........... Posted by Mix Masta Drew Dub on 08:10:2001 01:21 AM: Jesus can make you whole. Look to Christ for your salvation. Posted by XPmagus on 08:10:2001 01:42 AM: Places to play? Where are best locations in the northwest to find competative play? XP-Magus Posted by Mix Masta Drew Dub on 08:10:2001 01:49 AM: Silver Coin in Seattle, Tilt in Portland, and Tilt in Springfield (OR). Springfield is where you'll find me. I'm hella good. Posted by TACOMA_VAN_DOOM on 08:10:2001 03:07 AM: quote: Originally posted by Mix Masta Drew Dub Masturbate Actually I used to get hella nervous during tournaments, I find it helps to talk to your opponent before matches so you can be comfortable around them. After I faught Ricky at B5, I was never nervous again because he was about as good a player as I was going to play. Just knowin that made me more comfortable playing everyone else. Seriously though, masturbate. Dont worry, Chocolate_Rocks always Maturbates. Posted by DannyCat on 08:10:2001 03:30 AM: quote: Originally posted by Chocolate_Rock Could you guys teach a scrub like me how to not get nervous durin a tournament ? Well, first off, play a lot. Experience helps. Second, bring manga to read. It's something to do. Third, have fun. It's something else to do. Posted by THE_LAW on 08:10:2001 03:50 AM: the best thing u can do is play in more tournoments! like when some plp are afarid of hights they bungi jump... its all about facing your fears! the more your in a certin sitution the more comfertable u will become with it! Posted by Mix Masta Drew Dub on 08:10:2001 03:54 AM: I have a question. Okay, what was that storm combo that Justin and Floe were doing at B5. The one with like, 6 consecutive HP HKs. That was cool. Posted by THE_LAW on 08:10:2001 04:03 AM: ok i have a question... remember rattana's first match aginst white, where he raped his spiral with various magneto/comm, super combos? well that shit was cool but besides flashy combos how else does comm help mags? alos who was the third person on his team? if not the same char. who would be the best char. to round out that trio? Posted by Mix Masta Drew Dub on 08:10:2001 04:29 AM: quote: Originally posted by THE_LAW ok i have a question... remember rattana's first match aginst white, where he raped his spiral with various magneto/comm, super combos? well that shit was cool but besides flashy combos how else does comm help mags? alos who was the third person on his team? if not the same char. who would be the best char. to round out that trio? The CapCom assist allows Magneto to punish assists very well, he would do a crouching lk,hk commando assist into shockwave. A fairly safe way to more than halve your opponents assist. Also it helps magneto control space a great deal better, as there usually is nothing he can do about the area directly above his head. Lastly, with magneto's speed he can use the assist as a primary method of attack when he feels he's not landing any air combo's, he can just poke around with his AAA and still deal some damage. His third character was cable, who works really well with commando (of course). Another really good character on that team is storm, who Justin showed can to some massively damaging combo's with a good anti air. Posted by gief on 08:10:2001 04:36 AM: Ok, I want to know some cable/comm NW strats How to play against strider/doom with it? About B5, do you saw any new, string strategies that might make a difference from now on. Any counter AHVBs against odd things, like rushdown+assist, cable's gun or HSF? Posted by TexMex on 08:10:2001 04:56 AM: quote: Originally posted by StiltMan Rattana uses the Cable/Doom/Commando variant that has become so popular in the northwest, being fairly aggressive to trap and get maximum chipping damage out of Doom's rocks. How do you get the most chip out of Doom's rocks w/ Cable? Is it safe to do against Cable, if not what is? Been wanting to know what best way is to get best chip from stuff like Doom's Beta and Storm's Gamma assists b/c I think they both work well w/ Cable's gun and reg viper beams to chip and trap pretty well. Also, how do you involve commando in an AC for that extra amount of dmg that doesn't buffer so much, would you hit assist at same time you do your launcher? Posted by mixup on 08:10:2001 07:40 AM: Which of magneto's attacks have the highest priority? Can anyone tell me who has magneto just beat out in the priority department and what you can do against that character. i know thats alot but no one else seems to know these things.(or they just dont want to tell me ) Posted by Vonstar on 08:10:2001 07:45 AM: to stilt and drew, was magneto completley useless in b5? because i saw a thread where magnto was just getting his ass kicked and storm proved to be more useful. i like magneto, but for the next south center tournament i dunno if i'd still use mag based on what everyones sayin Posted by mixup on 08:10:2001 07:53 AM: I dont think he is worthless (i know this isn't directed to me) i think that the level of play with him just has to be higher..I'll probably come to a conclusion with him when i understand more about the priorities of his attacks vs storm ect.. he just seems too open in his rush and options to disregard him as effective. Posted by mastermind on 08:10:2001 08:01 AM: quote: Originally posted by Chocolate_Rock Could you guys teach a scrub like me how to not get nervous durin a tournament ? You play against me, Rock. Because I suck. Nothing says killing off nervousness at a tournament more than beating a scrub first round. Posted by Vonstar on 08:10:2001 08:15 AM: cool av lee, about time u changed that gengar...wait, hes still there. oh cool, theres sentinel Posted by BiGKeN on 08:10:2001 04:17 PM: StiltMan XPmagus: One thing that strongly seperates the northwest players from California players is the playing style. The northwest's style is considerably less aggressive than California's, with Cable/Doom/Commando being far and away the most popular team around here. That team's practically unknown outside the northwest. There's a great deal of respect for Commando outside the northwest, but there's neither the creativity nor the amount of exploration you see here. There are a huge number of tricks people have used to make use of him, whether it's as a shield for a side of the board defensively, adding that extra oomph to the middle of a combo, whatever... that you just don't see outside the northwest. The only thing akin to it is the various things Justin Wong will do to throw Cammy into the middle of things in a similar fashion. Justin Wong is the only guy I've seen just throw a power AAA into the middle of a combo to add extra damage to it who isn't from the northwest stilt, youve never been on the east coast all that shit is old EC stuff :P so dont say "this is just a northwest team, blah blah" before u find out bout shit, no hate...its kool ur helping people out, just wanted to clear that up though SeXy Posted by StiltMan on 08:10:2001 04:58 PM: Choco Rocks: A certain amount of nerves is natural for tournaments. I may look like I'm playing ice-cold when you see me play, and indeed I do tend to play a lot more calmly in tournaments than I do in casual play, but this is just because, when I'm in a tournament, I just play it a lot safer and more conservative when I know it counts. There are a lot of things I do to try and see to it that my nerves stay nice and frosty. One thing is that I try not to drink too much caffeinated pop... the only reason I'll ever drink that stuff during a tournament is if I'm just flat out feeling drowsy. It may not seem as obvious, but that stuff basically gets metabolized into your system as adrenaline, so if you really crank that stuff back you're going to be all jittery and bouncy by the time you step up to the cabinet. If you're feeling thirsty, hit the drinking fountain or something, or bring some Gatorade along or the like. Keep the caffeine to a minimum. Another thing that I'll do is just plain sit down and relax fairly frequently, and try not to think too hard about it in between matches. If you spend all the time between your fights working yourself up and worrying about it, you'll usually beat yourself by the time it actually comes to it. Those are the main two things I tend to do, it may or may not work as well for you. gief: You'll probably have to be a little more specific. The only things I can really tell you based on that are that Cable controls the horizontal space and Commando controls the vertical... other than that obvious point, I'm not quite sure what you're asking. TexMex: Cable can safely throw a fierceX4 with Doom behind him and do a fierce viper beam. If you time it all correctly, the rocks will get there right at the end of the viper beam, and Doom himself should be away by the time they're done blocking. If he isn't, you can always super jump out while they're still blocking rocks and drop a grenade. Cable has an easy enough time controlling the horizontal areas of the screen that approaching isn't real difficult for him -- it's his enemies that worry about approaching him, not him who has to worry about approaching them. So dropping Doom at point blank isn't usually that big of a problem for him, either. If you've got fast reaction time, you can also light them up for an AHVB if Doom's rocks hit them. (That whole fierce, Doom, viper beam set-up can be AHVB'ed afterwards if it all hits.) Commando is mainly there to zone them off and keep them in front of you. If they try to get up over you, drop Commando and/or backdash. Commando will cut off the screen so they can't follow you, and most characters can't do much to him in retaliation that you can't AHVB. The Commando assist is not put into an air combo, at least not for Cable. Cable's best combo incorporating Commando is short/fwd/rh/Commando/AHVBx3. That will kill basically anyone short of Colossus or Sentinel. mixup: His pokes have pretty good priority and speed, and his air fierce and roundhouse will penetrate super armor on one hit. Not sure what else you want to know other than that. Vonstar: Magneto wasn't completely useless at B5, but it wasn't far off. The main problem is that, in the end, he can't do a lot of damage unless he's right in someone's face, he can't trap, he can't chip, and he can't control space very well. There's only so many angles you can really go at someone from with him, and if they simply don't let themselves get rattled and watch what you're doing, it's not as hard to avoid getting hit as you'd think. He evades the rushdown problems of characters like Wolverine and Rogue because he's a lot more mobile than they are, but ultimately, he does still have to land a hit or a throw to do much. If he can't land that hit for whatever reason, and his opponent has a chipping weapon to throw in edgewise, he's not going to win. Duc's team, if Spiral is patient, is a lot better against Magneto than even I gave it credit for, and Cable/Doom/Commando can almost trivially dispose of him if Cable doesn't fall asleep. It could be said that the level of play needs to be higher... I'll translate that to make it more blunt: you have to be a lot better than your opponent to beat him with Magneto if he's got a good space control and chipping team to put against you. Posted by TexMex on 08:10:2001 07:10 PM: quote: Originally posted by StiltMan Cable can safely throw a fierceX4 with Doom behind him and do a fierce viper beam. If you time it all correctly, the rocks will get there right at the end of the viper beam, and Doom himself should be away by the time they're done blocking. If he isn't, you can always super jump out while they're still blocking rocks and drop a grenade. Ok, cause I've also seen: drop doom/storm (Y assist), fierce X4, grenade, fierce X4, fierce Viperbeam Is that just not as safe to do against people like Storm/Mag, or people that have long reaches such as sent/dhalsim? quote: Originally posted by StiltMan The Commando assist is not put into an air combo, at least not for Cable. Cable's best combo incorporating Commando is short/fwd/rh/Commando/AHVBx3. That will kill basically anyone short of Colossus or Sentinel. In this are you hitting Capcom at same time as standing RH or after? I've also seen Capcom used in AC's w/ Storm and Mag but not sure when they call him, thinking at same time they launch. Thnx for the info. Posted by mixup on 08:10:2001 07:27 PM: Stilt, no i didn't mean that you have to be much better than your opponent to win. My point is that if magneto is patient and avoids set-ups like the one you mention, cable will set himself up with the use of his assists to be rushed. please go read team guide for Mag,Storm,Psy there is a little section in there when i discuss how i handle that match-up, let me know what you think and please add to it with a comment. as for mags i just wanna know which of his attacks are the best to use for poking,on a jump-in,which to switch to if a character has higher priority on most of their attacks. I just dont have enough comp to really experiment. Posted by Chocolate_Rock on 08:10:2001 10:33 PM: quote: Originally posted by TACOMA_VAN_DOOM Dont worry, Chocolate_Rocks always Maturbates. Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa........dun tell me your tryin ta say somethin.....dun make me bring this up........ Unblockable-So Charlie what kinda girls you like? Tacoma_Van_Doom-MEEEEENNNNNNNN........... Posted by cheese_master on 08:10:2001 10:35 PM: quote: Originally posted by Mix Masta Drew Dub I have a question. Okay, what was that storm combo that Justin and Floe were doing at B5. The one with like, 6 consecutive HP HKs. That was cool. To answer your question.... Storm's AC that they were probably doing was.... launcher, sj fp, airdash d/f, sj fp, sj rh, s rh. Its kinda like magneto's all hard hit combo... cept it has slightly tighter timing. It does nearly as much damage as the lightning attack combo... and for no supers. Posted by Chocolate_Rock on 08:10:2001 10:42 PM: Oh btw thanks to everyone who took tha time to answer my question. That really helps a lot since I STILL get nervous whenever I fight in tournaments. To Lee-Hehehehe everytime I fought you I was hella nervous. Everytime I think except for the Tacoma Mall tourney. But besides that I was nervous as hell. And lemme tell ya I suck more than you do trust me on that one.......... Posted by PsiANyd on 08:10:2001 11:49 PM: I told Kaworu that I would help out as well. Sorry it took me so long to post but i have a gf I am paying back for going to B5. Rocks: The way I stopped being nervous for tournaments was to only care about playing my best and not winning. If I play my best and lose well there is nothing I can do to beat that person than anyways you know? Last time I was nervous during a tournament (aside from my first pool game at B5) was so long ago I can't remember because of that very reason. Just focus and play hard, everything comes from that. EDIT: That Storm air combo in the corner is launch sj rh airdash df sj rh land c short standing jab standing fierce standing rh. Posted by Mix Masta Drew Dub on 08:11:2001 05:23 AM: quote: Originally posted by PsiANyd I told Kaworu that I would help out as well. He called me Kaworu... Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Kaworu is hella good. Posted by Chocolate_Rock on 08:11:2001 08:40 AM: quote: Originally posted by PsiANyd I told Kaworu that I would help out as well. Sorry it took me so long to post but i have a gf I am paying back for going to B5. Rocks: The way I stopped being nervous for tournaments was to only care about playing my best and not winning. If I play my best and lose well there is nothing I can do to beat that person than anyways you know? Last time I was nervous during a tournament (aside from my first pool game at B5) was so long ago I can't remember because of that very reason. Just focus and play hard, everything comes from that. EDIT: That Storm air combo in the corner is launch sj rh airdash df sj rh land c short standing jab standing fierce standing rh. Aight thanks for the advice I dun get nervous durin casual play but when it comes to tournaments I get nervous and do stupid stuff. Posted by JsTyLe on 08:12:2001 06:40 AM: . Posted by JsTyLe on 08:12:2001 09:33 AM: how do i beat jackson! Posted by PsiANyd on 08:12:2001 11:23 AM: quote: Originally posted by JsTyLe how do i beat jackson! If you are talking about his team of Cable/BH/Commando defeating it is the same way you defeat any Cable/Commando team. Look at it like this. His Cable is going to try and run away and charge up and wear your team down with his assists until he finally sees an opening to kill someone. Now there are two options you have in defeating this team. 1. You can rush that shit down and beat the hell out of his Cable. This is obviously the most difficult way to do it because his team is designed to make it so you can't rush him. In all likelyhood if you try and rush him you will eat so many infernos and Captain Corridors that your point character will be beat down while his Cable has a few bars and not too much life off. If your rush down is good enough than go for it but I mean I don't reccommend this way. But hey, path less traveled right? 2. Go after his assists. Cable's defense is only as good as his assists. Most Cable/Commandos function on the basic premise of charging up bars and killing your assist. I would reccommend Whoever/Cable/Commando against Jackson. If you are fighting a good Cable commando this is what they will probably do. They will run and charge up with Cable. You know how that goes. Anytime you call an assist close to them that assist will eat a commando right after they see it come out. (doom withstanding =P) This is the best way to beat Jackson. At full screen he will prob call BH. Just keep trying to wavedash in and force him to get panicky and call his commando. Then punish his with yours. This sounds simple enough but Jackson is an extremely patient player and plays Cable Commando as well as you could ever want to. To increase his impatience try catching him with some sj. throws and things like this. A very important thing is to NOT waste your bars. So many times when we were in Cali we would see people AHVB an assist the first time it came out when they only had one super. What good does this do? My assist is now missing maybe 30-40 percent of his life but I have around a bar and a half atleast cause you just gave me super by hitting my assit. So in about 10-15 ticks I am gonna have a not very hurt assist and around 3 bars while your Cable is still trying to get his second. Now you can't call assists unless you don't mind them dying. Key is to not go after an assist with an AHVB unless you can kill it. Or unless there is no other choice. It sounds like an all too simplified way to fight against him but his game is that simple. BH/Commando is reason enough for you to have Commando in your team. If you are fighting BH/AAA and you don't use Commando then either they are weak or you don't mind losing. I mean Commando isn't the only way to keep BH out, just the best. Teams I would reccommend against Jackson would be Storm/Cable/Commando, Cable/Doom/Commando, Magneto/Cable/Commando, Sentinel/Cable/Commando, and maybe even Storm/Doom/Commando. I have only really outlined Cable/Commando strats against his team because that's the best way to beat it IMO. If you have a team or character you want me to try speculate about then let me know. I mean I am no expert by any means, I just can give some free advice and all. Take it easy. Posted by soup or man on 08:12:2001 01:07 PM: First i'd just like to say, this is a really great thread. Secondly i have a question...I've been using Cammy for as long as i can remember in MvC2, she's sort of my confidence character, i start her out as point. My team is Cammy/Cable/Doom all on AAA. I've looking for some cammy strategies though, i've got her air throw combos and things like that, but i'm looking for something more than run in, cr. lk, cr. lk, cr. HP. With this team i have some trouble vs. keep-away teams like Cable/BH/Sentinel. Posted by JsTyLe on 08:12:2001 07:55 PM: quote: Originally posted by PsiANyd If you are talking about his team of Cable/BH/Commando defeating it is the same way you defeat any Cable/Commando team. Look at it like this. His Cable is going to try and run away and charge up and wear your team down with his assists until he finally sees an opening to kill someone. Now there are two options you have in defeating this team. 1. You can rush that shit down and beat the hell out of his Cable. This is obviously the most difficult way to do it because his team is designed to make it so you can't rush him. In all likelyhood if you try and rush him you will eat so many infernos and Captain Corridors that your point character will be beat down while his Cable has a few bars and not too much life off. If your rush down is good enough than go for it but I mean I don't reccommend this way. But hey, path less traveled right? 2. Go after his assists. Cable's defense is only as good as his assists. Most Cable/Commandos function on the basic premise of charging up bars and killing your assist. I would reccommend Whoever/Cable/Commando against Jackson. If you are fighting a good Cable commando this is what they will probably do. They will run and charge up with Cable. You know how that goes. Anytime you call an assist close to them that assist will eat a commando right after they see it come out. (doom withstanding =P) This is the best way to beat Jackson. At full screen he will prob call BH. Just keep trying to wavedash in and force him to get panicky and call his commando. Then punish his with yours. This sounds simple enough but Jackson is an extremely patient player and plays Cable Commando as well as you could ever want to. To increase his impatience try catching him with some sj. throws and things like this. A very important thing is to NOT waste your bars. So many times when we were in Cali we would see people AHVB an assist the first time it came out when they only had one super. What good does this do? My assist is now missing maybe 30-40 percent of his life but I have around a bar and a half atleast cause you just gave me super by hitting my assit. So in about 10-15 ticks I am gonna have a not very hurt assist and around 3 bars while your Cable is still trying to get his second. Now you can't call assists unless you don't mind them dying. Key is to not go after an assist with an AHVB unless you can kill it. Or unless there is no other choice. It sounds like an all too simplified way to fight against him but his game is that simple. BH/Commando is reason enough for you to have Commando in your team. If you are fighting BH/AAA and you don't use Commando then either they are weak or you don't mind losing. I mean Commando isn't the only way to keep BH out, just the best. Teams I would reccommend against Jackson would be Storm/Cable/Commando, Cable/Doom/Commando, Magneto/Cable/Commando, Sentinel/Cable/Commando, and maybe even Storm/Doom/Commando. I have only really outlined Cable/Commando strats against his team because that's the best way to beat it IMO. If you have a team or character you want me to try speculate about then let me know. I mean I am no expert by any means, I just can give some free advice and all. Take it easy. eh.. i get too excited when i play jackson.. im not patient enough heh.. heh yea i ahvb his helpers at times only to let him sj right behind me and return the favor.. anyways nice guide ive always thought about punishing his capcom with mine but afraid he might murder it with one bar.. heh now i know better.. thanks alot man.. oh and have u ever beaten jackson before? the most ive ever gotten was his cable and 1/4 of his BH... damn AAAs Posted by Mix Masta Drew Dub on 08:12:2001 08:45 PM: quote: Originally posted by soup or man First i'd just like to say, this is a really great thread. Secondly i have a question...I've been using Cammy for as long as i can remember in MvC2, she's sort of my confidence character, i start her out as point. My team is Cammy/Cable/Doom all on AAA. I've looking for some cammy strategies though, i've got her air throw combos and things like that, but i'm looking for something more than run in, cr. lk, cr. lk, cr. HP. With this team i have some trouble vs. keep-away teams like Cable/BH/Sentinel. The best Cammy strategy I ever had was changing her for Captain Commando . Seriously though, this is a good question for Stilt, as he is our resident Cammy anti air button hitter. Posted by Smiley on 08:13:2001 04:12 AM: wow... the NW plays cable, doom, and capcom? i too would like some more strats on this team.. what order are they played in? what weaknesses do they have? ya know, the usual stuff Posted by Geronimo on 08:13:2001 04:47 AM: quote: Originally posted by soup or man First i'd just like to say, this is a really great thread. Secondly i have a question...I've been using Cammy for as long as i can remember in MvC2, she's sort of my confidence character, i start her out as point. My team is Cammy/Cable/Doom all on AAA. I've looking for some cammy strategies though, i've got her air throw combos and things like that, but i'm looking for something more than run in, cr. lk, cr. lk, cr. HP. With this team i have some trouble vs. keep-away teams like Cable/BH/Sentinel. Throw then dash-in c.lk->c.mk->c.hp (j/k, even though this does work) But seriously, use your doom assistto force them to block, THEN do the dash-in, or better yet, cross-up jump-in. You also have the option to throw then OTG, but then they can roll. And once you're in there, Cable'll try to jump away and call an assist, so use your Cable AAA to hit the assist, then dash-in and keep the pressure on Cable or whoever is the point man. Also remember the corner is one of your best friends, so pressure them in to there, throw, OTG, which is unrollable, then force them to eat you Cannon Spike XX KBA. Hope that helped. Posted by THE_LAW on 08:13:2001 04:49 AM: word this team sounds hot, but i wanna know. what are the problem match ups? any particular team or characters i should look out for? if so how would i adjust my game play or tacticts to componsate...? Posted by Vonstar on 08:13:2001 06:53 AM: how about this one psianyd, killing cable/commando besides snapping commando, and if there is a good anti team Posted by PsiANyd on 08:13:2001 09:53 AM: I will try to field a couple of questions. 1. How does Cable/Doom/Commando work? Well it is played in that order and basically it relys on the chipping of Doom and assist killing abilities of Commando. This team is only about defense and it is an entirely Cable team. You can start Doom on occasion but that is only for bad Cable matchups. ( Spiral especially.) This whole team relies on you having a good Cable. If your Cable is sub par then get it good before you play this team. What does good Cable mean? You should be able to utilize things like Instant (or tiger knee) grenades, conservation of supers etc. I cannot stress the importance enough of conserving supers with Cable. As I talked about before burning your only bar on an assist who is 100 percent will do absolutely nothing for you. The most important aspect of this team is patience patience patience. If you are more inclined to rushdown then I will say you might wanna stay away from this team. Not only is it not condusive to your style of play but if you can't excercise the required patience that will be the end of your 50 cents, or that game of the tournament. The thing you want to do is to create impatience in your opponent. You do this by keeping a solid defense and not doing too much. If you are near each other on the ground just jump over and drop Doom. Keep chipping him. If they super jump above you super jump and throw them. Just keep chipping away at their life and they will begin to get impatient which leads to frustration. Use a lot of dash up throws with Cable on the ground or jump ins to draw out their assit. Once they bring out whoever call commando and super jump. Keep doing these things until you have enough bars to kill their assit. Then just keep doin this and that last time they impatienly call their assist hit it with Commando and go to work. Now the life each of your point characters have may be even but you just took his team out from the ground up. The entire game up until that point is a subtle set up for the assist kill. This team boils down to who calls their assit last. That should be you. Another critical aspect of this team is KEEP CABLE ALIVE. It seems stupid to state that but if Cable dies you better have the lead. That's the only time it's ok for Cable to die. I mean Doom ain't no sucka by any means but Doom's role in this team is to retain the lead, not win games. I mean if you got a hardcore doom that is fine but if your Doom is good enough to hang but not good enough to take down teams then he should be coming in with the lead. I'll go through some top tier character matchups briefly. 1. Sentinel Should be rather easy. I mean Sentinel has his problems with Cable in the first place. Cable with Doom and Commando behind him? Forget it. Although be wary of Sentinels with Psylocke behind them. Get rid of doom nice and easy. But if they have Psylocke then it won't take many corridors before she's feeling it. Just instant grenades and try and avoid calling Doom full screen, especially if they have more than one bar. You don't want your Doom looking at 50 percent gone in any situation. If he wants to fly just keep him down with fierces grenades and viper beams. His big ass has a hard time getting aroudn bullets let alone all of that shit. Alot of Sentinels will try and draw out your commando to stomp on him. Once again it's the patience thing. Just try to stay away from the corners and you shouldn't have big of problem. 2. Storm She gives any team problems because she's Storm. I mean you know how she works. Bring her down from her running with Commando. After she gets hit by commando a couple of times throwing vertical typhoons she'll think twice before doing that. When she comes down try to hold her with doom and get some chip in. I mean there's no easy way to beat Storm, no wonder she's the best. If she rushes than you don't have anything to worry about. Either her assits will coming out left and right and if they aren't then she won't be able to do anything becuse you will blocking and dropping doom or commando. 3. Strider/Doom This team gives anyone probs so ya. If they are stupid enough to Ouro from full screen AHVB that shit. If you know they play this team just switch commando for Cyke or Ken or something. Strider is a pussy so if you can hit him with an AHVB go for it. 4. Doom Cable can control the air against this guy. If he can't sj what does he have? Just drop doom and sj gun grenade. Chip him with fierce x 4 viper beam doom's rocks on the ground. Pretty text book. Nothing too difficult to watch out for against him. 5. Magneto Now it seems like Magnus should handle this team right? Not necessarily so. I don't think anyone playing Team Unhhh at B5 lost to a Magneto. I mean if Shady's Magnus couldn't get around it then who's is gonna? Just play solid and stay away from the corners. If you aren't in the corner then you won't have much to worry about. 6. Cable I have talked about this a lot so it doesn't do good to talk about it again. Charge up, go after his assits. 7. Spiral Out of all of the top tier she gives this team the most trouble. Why? No assist killing if their spiral is worth anything. Going after their Sentinel? Teleports stop that. Knives stop Doom and commando. The best away aroudn her is to drop Commando when she teleports and go for an air combo. I would reccommend starting Doom against Spiral before Cable. 8. BH Shouldn't be that big of deal. I mean any BH is hard to fight (how do you think I do so well? =P ) but as long as you take away the sj screen from him it shouldn't be a prob. Just don't let him start his rush. But if he does get in just wait for his assist and bust him with commando. If he wants to inferno HOD you that means he is impatient or careless. Needless to say mash out of that shit and take your free AHVB. When I say mash out I mean mash so Cable gets hit. 2. Question about playing Cammy. Well personally I don't use her and don't play her but from watchig Justin play the key is to throw throw throw. If they jump you should try and airthrow back into an air combo. If you want to use her full potential try and to become proficient in immediatlly super jumping and airthrowing. The fierce air throw of course. 3. Good anti team for Cable/Commando? Spiral/blah/blah. She is the most practical way to beat Cable commando because she nullifies any assist killing hope Cable has. I mean the primary idea behind the team gets thrown out the window when you can't totally eliminate their assist. I mean it's not a free victory by any means, but it's the closest thing to it. In all honesty Cable/Doom/Commanod is one of the more solid teams in teh game to me. I mean I doubt it would be so popular if it were so easy to defeat. Sorry I can't be more helpful. I would say BH/Cyke is good too but I have an almost undying faith in my boy BH and taking that advice may lead you to lose as frequently as I do. I hope that helps anyone at all. Take it easy. Posted by StiltMan on 08:13:2001 05:22 PM: As far as playing Cammy goes, probably the worst advice I can think of is to try and think of her as either a substitute for Commando or Ken or the like. Cammy is not Commando or Ken. She doesn't control high altitudes as well as Commando, and she isn't as invulnerable as Ken, so if you start thinking of her as a stand-in for one of them, you're probably not going to like her much. What Cammy does give you is a better aerial angle and a better defensive response to rushdown. She reaches further out horizontally in the air than either Commando or Ken, and since she starts out behind the point character, it's far more difficult for an airdashing opponent to slip in behind her or cross her up if you call her near the ground, whereas Commando or Ken's releases are both slow enough that you can sneak past the arc of their attack with either Magneto or Storm fairly easily. Cammy shuts down these rushing angles much better than Commando or Ken do, and if your opponent is trying to play a dodge or aerial game with Sentinel or Doom, Cammy will reach them at a further out angle than either Commando or Ken will. The weakness she brings with her for this is that if you do let your opponent get directly over your head with a flying Sentinel, they can call an AAA of their own to take the hit on his behalf and stay aloft. Your point character is going to have to cover that area on his own, and use Cammy to keep him from getting there in the first place if you don't have a character that can go air-to-air with Sentinel at poking range. (BH, Cable, Magneto, or Storm can do this fairly well... Doom can't.) As far as a counter to Cable/Doom/Commando goes... I actually don't mind using Sentinel for this as much as PsiANyd lets on... Sentinel still has a fair amount of maneuvering room in the air against this team, unlike with Cable/BH/Commando. (Take bets on why Jackson messes me up so bad? Because if you take Sentinel away from me, I tend to have problems.) However, PsiANyd is right in that Spiral is the best answer for this team. Whenever I come up against a player who I know is going to be relying a good deal on Cable/Commando in general, Spiral, usually with BH behind her, is often what I will go do. In the past, I've usually gone with Spiral/Sentinel/BH in tournaments against Cable/Doom/Commando players... Spiral/BH is one of Cable's worst nightmares, Sentinel/BH is one of Doom's, and Spiral/BH isn't much better for Doom than it is for Cable when his only help is Commando. About the only prayer for this matchup for the Cable team is for Cable to try and keep Doom's rocks as close to the opposition as they can, because there are no distance games here that Cable is going to win. Posted by StriderDude on 08:14:2001 12:23 AM: Hey, great thread. I was wondering if any teams or traps are losing its effectiveness. After B5 do you think that any teams will not be used as often anymore? And are there any new teams that peeps are using? Posted by Vonstar on 08:14:2001 12:50 AM: any tips for cable vs cable? i don't like this match up, i try to avoid it, but shit happens. Posted by MarkyMark on 08:14:2001 02:43 PM: What happens to Cable/Doom/Commando when Commando gets snapped in? ...And we're gonna see how Magneto/Strider/Doom does against Cable/Commando. So far, as much as I've seen at Gameroom, my Magneto/Strider/Doom doesn't do too well against Cable/Commando. D'oh. I'm wondering... How many good Spiral players are there up there? With Cable/Commando being so popular, you'd think the counter Spiral would be equally as in. Posted by StiltMan on 08:14:2001 05:18 PM: As you might have seen at B5, Magneto doesn't do so hot against Cable/Doom/AAA at all. You might get a little bit of a break due to the fact that the opposition might want to take Cyclops instead of Commando in order to deal with your close range Doom, so the space control power will be a bit diminished, but that's not going to get you that much if your opponent keeps their cool and doesn't get hit. As far as good NW Spiral players go... there are a few who have used her in tournaments, though quite a few more who know how to player than use her. Thong Nguyen, Scott Wong, and Jackson Chen all know how to play her, but they rarely (if ever) use her in tournaments. Brian Jiang is fairly good with her but doesn't have a whole lot of patience for her any more. Yangsing plays her in tournaments but doesn't tend to dominate with her. All of these play Team Duc, typically. I play a fair amount of Spiral in tournaments, but I've never been completely comfortable with Team Duc, myself... I've always found myself happier with my Spiral when I've got BH somewhere on the team. The Spiral team I've gotten the most mileage out of is Spiral/Sentinel/BH, which I've used as one of my counter teams for Cable/Commando for a while now. I don't like that team against the rush at all, though, so I'm not sure I'm going to stay with it much longer. I've also tried Spiral/Cable/BH in the recent past, but Cable is nowhere near as good on that team as Sentinel would be on point... BH and Spiral don't do Cable much good unless he's also got some close range help to lend a hand, and if you're going to have Cable as only the third option (and he is, in fact, in the weakest position of the three characters on that team on point), there's not much reason to put him on the team in the first place. I've sometimes found myself tinkering a bit with Spiral/BH/Commando, but I haven't had the guts to try that in a tournament yet. Posted by Coy on 08:14:2001 08:50 PM: Hey guys since you were at the midwests and seen it all I hope you can help me clear some doubts mainly about: JUSTIN WONG'S STORM/SENTINEL/CAMMY. I'll want to give special THANKS to Stiltman who has already helped me to clear some doubts about this subject. I saw him play and played with him in the midwests, but he never played that team. MAINLY WHAT I WONDER IS HOW DOES HE PLAY STORM???, what does he do that makes him so good, more clearly technically what does Justin does different from anyone else??? (I can just wonder he rushes with Storm using Sentinel and Cammy assists, and that he may play Storm similar to Viscant???). Other than that big damaging DHC combo does his storm does anything special or differerent from anyone else?? (like using a lot of lighting attacks for air rushdown, wavedashing under jumping oponents, etc??). After seeing his Magneto I can just imagine he plays Storm very similar to Magnus, using mainly a lot of air-dashing and air-maneuvering in all 8 directions and at all posible heights (which is one of the biggest diference from his Magneto and the rest). I also heared he doesn't runaway, so that only leaves rushdown and keepaway (and Storm's keepaway only consisat of ocasional vertical typhoons and horizontal typhoon XX hailstorm to punish assists) (but since he starts with Storm he doesn't have many supers and can't hailstorm happily all day), So I guess it has to be rushdown mainly???. Again what are the diference with his Storm and the rest???, Does he does a lot of air-maneuvering and air-dashing at all possible angles, and this being the biggest difference from his Storm and the rest of the Top Storm players????. Please enlighten me. About his Sentinel, I also wonder what he does outside the trap using cr.fierce/r.punch/Storm-A/cr.fierce/r.punch/HSF/repeat... Does he rushes with Sentinel similar to Alex.V, Using a combination of headstomps-frypans-flight-flightcancelings. I mean he can't have a lot of supers all the time, so he can not rely mainly on Storm's keepaway and Sentinel's trap using storm-A assist (plus that trap only work on 2 of the top tiers -Sentrinel & Cable- and still he can't have super all the time). I'll APRECIATE A LOT ALL THE HELP YOU GUYS CAN GIVE ME, ESPECIALLY ON MY DOUBT ABOUT HOW DOES HE PARTICULARY PLAYS STORM??? Posted by mixup on 08:15:2001 04:06 AM: Stilt, did you catch my response to what you thought? read an old guide i wrote(Team guide for magneto storm and psylocke) and i detail some common situations for mag teams vs that cable team, let me know your opinion. Posted by MarkyMark on 08:15:2001 03:01 PM: quote: Originally posted by StiltMan As you might have seen at B5, Magneto doesn't do so hot against Cable/Doom/AAA at all. You might get a little bit of a break due to the fact that the opposition might want to take Cyclops instead of Commando in order to deal with your close range Doom, so the space control power will be a bit diminished, but that's not going to get you that much if your opponent keeps their cool and doesn't get hit. How does Strider/Doom do versus Cable/Doom/CapCom? CapCom is one of the few anti-airs that actually bothers Strider's teleports (most others don't - either get a wrong angle, or they're just easily blocked), though I still wonder... Maybe do Strider/Magneto/Doom versus Cable/Doom/CapCom... Let Strider do what he can (hopefully kill Cable), and let Magneto own Doom... Mmm. quote: Originally posted by StiltMan I play a fair amount of Spiral in tournaments, but I've never been completely comfortable with Team Duc, myself... Team Duc sucks . quote: Originally posted by StiltMan I've sometimes found myself tinkering a bit with Spiral/BH/Commando, but I haven't had the guts to try that in a tournament yet. I think Spiral/Sentinel/AAA (CapCom or Cammy) is a lot stronger... because Spiral/Sentinel is just terrible for so many opponents. Of course, I don't know how to play BH, so I may not know what I'm talking about as far as strength. Still... Magneto/Strider/Doom will have to learn. If only I can get a ride to the arcade . Posted by StiltMan on 08:15:2001 06:56 PM: Coy: Justin Wong's Storm was basically all rush. There was a little bit of runaway, but not a whole lot... Cammy is probably the best assist for close range fights in the game, and Storm is very good at making sure that there's going to be a close range fight on your hands. However, Storm also has the ability to fight from a distance to a much more effective degree than Magneto does, and Justin made good use of this option, which is a lot of what made his Storm more effective than his Mags was at B5. The typhoon assist also helped a bit with Sentinel's trapping, which gave Sentinel a lot more options while he was on point, whereas Cable basically can't do a whole lot except run and hope someone screws up on the Mag/Cable/Cammy team. mixup: Mag/Storm/Psylocke's main problem lies in that, however good it might be at controlling the area near the ground, it isn't very good at controlling the area off the ground other than with hail storms, and it still has to land a hit to do any real damage -- nobody on the team has any great ability to chip, so if your opponent just keeps their cool and doesn't let you rush them down, you're in trouble. This was Valle's problem when he tried this team on Mike Devonish at B5: Devonish just went with fairly calm Storm/Cable/Cammy... Cammy, as I already said, is probably the best assist for close range fights in the game, and that includes against Magneto/Storm/Psylocke rushdown. No rush = no damage = no win. Mark: Strider/Doom isn't that bad against Cable/Doom/Commando, if you can manage to get close to them. Cable is no slouch at trapping with Doom himself, and if he maintains the full screen range on Strider, Strider's safe options get rather limited. Teleporting at that range is okay, but you're not going to be able to straddle him between Doom and Strider at that distance. Throwing animals or the orbs at that distance is extremely dangerous -- if Cable's got quick enough reaction time, he can AHVB that cleanly, which is probably the end of Strider. Strider can win this fight, but if the Cable player knows what they're doing it can be very, very difficult. Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:15:2001 07:09 PM: Just a quick query, how does Cable trap with Doom? Posted by TexMex on 08:15:2001 08:14 PM: How do you use Cammy AAA correctly? I think I read ealier that the worst mistake you can make is trying to use her as if she was Commando, how do you use her effectively then. Posted by StiltMan on 08:15:2001 09:42 PM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL Just a quick query, how does Cable trap with Doom? It's pretty simple, stupid, old stuff... call Doom, fierceX4, fierce viper beam. At full screen, they'll be blocking the rocks right after the viper beam, so by the time they're out of block stun, Cable's recovered and Doom's gone. If the fierce punch hits, the whole setup will combo and you can AHVB them off the rocks. If they're short enough to duck the fierce punch (and if they're gutsy enough to try something), tagging will only trade with Doom's rocks in most cases, teleporting to the ground behind Cable (e.g. Spiral) will get you hit by the rocks, and teleporting to the air over Cable's head can usually be protected well by a quick scimitar and/or Doom's rocks instead of going auto-pilot with the viper beam. If they block a grenade out of the air, they're probably going to have to block this on the ground as well. In addition, a fair amount of the stuff that works with Cable/Spiral also works to a lesser degree with Cable/Doom, although there's a few more holes at longer reaches. At close ranges, Cable can rush to a mild degree and just drop Doom suddenly while he jumps over. Against an opponent who has no AAA, jump-in rh, drop Doom, fierceX4, grenade (short if they're not in the corner, rh if they are) can be extremely difficult to escape if they don't have a teleport, especially if the third character is Commando. If, at any point, the rocks hit someone and you're not doing something else, that's a free AHVB if you're quick enough to react to it. I've been pulling a reaction-and-timing annoyance for the last few months where, if an opponent is coming in on a super jump or the like, I'll drop Doom at the last second before Cable would have to block. If they throw just about anything other than a quick air chain that keeps them hanging in the air for a while longer, Cable will block it before Doom comes on the screen, they'll impale themselves on the rocks before they reach the ground, and from there Cable lights 'em up. If they walk into the rocks on the ground, that's a full package of three. This all takes some pretty uncommon reaction time, though, and Doom's useful enough for a lot of things besides setting up AHVBs, and you can set up AHVBs with less reaction time prowess with other assists, too, so... maybe that factors into a team decision, maybe it doesn't. It is a potential threat, though. Posted by mastermind on 08:15:2001 10:29 PM: With Justin's Storm/Sentinel/Cammy, what assist does Storm have? Alpha (horizontal typhoon) or Gamma (vert. typhoon)? I've been playing around with this team and my Sentinel can benefit so much more with Storm's Gamma rather than Alpha. Posted by MarkyMark on 08:16:2001 04:00 AM: quote: Originally posted by StiltMan Mark: Strider/Doom isn't that bad against Cable/Doom/Commando, if you can manage to get close to them. Cable is no slouch at trapping with Doom himself, and if he maintains the full screen range on Strider, Strider's safe options get rather limited. Teleporting at that range is okay, but you're not going to be able to straddle him between Doom and Strider at that distance. Throwing animals or the orbs at that distance is extremely dangerous -- if Cable's got quick enough reaction time, he can AHVB that cleanly, which is probably the end of Strider. Strider can win this fight, but if the Cable player knows what they're doing it can be very, very difficult. Interesting. For a fight against Strider/Doom, I would expect Cable/Doom/CapCom to play more Cable/CapCom, and less Cable/Doom. I know I would. Especially if Strider gets in. If Strider's on top of Cable, there's no room for Doom to come out (because even when Cable's out of block stun, Strider can tap Doom before he gets rocks started). I just personally see Cable/CapCom as the best way to go in that fight. *Shrugs* I'll see. Posted by Vonstar on 08:16:2001 06:51 AM: quote: Originally posted by mastermind With Justin's Storm/Sentinel/Cammy, what assist does Storm have? Alpha (horizontal typhoon) or Gamma (vert. typhoon)? I've been playing around with this team and my Sentinel can benefit so much more with Storm's Gamma rather than Alpha. i asked that too in another thread, and everyone said that gamma sucks, but they said the storm alpha is better for sentinel trapping, and it stops the assists of the opposing player. but i guess the downfall of the gamma is the lag time. cables can ahvb that shit or somethin Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:16:2001 07:37 AM: quote: Originally posted by Vonstar i asked that too in another thread, and everyone said that gamma sucks, but they said the storm alpha is better for sentinel trapping, and it stops the assists of the opposing player. but i guess the downfall of the gamma is the lag time. cables can ahvb that shit or somethin I've seen a trap variant with Sentinel and Gamma-Storm. C.Fierce+Gamma-Storm XX Fierce-Rocket Punch, You can end it with either Short-Sentinel Force, Flight, or whatever you want because you recover faster than your opponent does. There is a slight pause in there where your opponent can teleport (if Spiral) or AHVB through though. Posted by Jin_Saotome on 08:16:2001 10:37 AM: im gonna add something since i use this team alot in seattle & B5: if u play against strider/doom, it'd be the best to use cable/doom/cyke instead of commando since doom's rocks stop commando but not cyke. and stilt.. if u do fierce x 4, doom, hyper beam, its true that cable's recovered but doom still outside laughing. so its not 100% safe unless u super jump or do something w/ cable (grenade??) spiral team doesnt own cable/doom/commando for free. if someone uses spiral on you while u using cable/doom/commando, just start doom and play smart basically a good cable/doom/commando owns everyteam... the only team that give it a lil more problem is magnus team -- Cody B. -- Posted by DannyCat on 08:16:2001 12:27 PM: quote: Originally posted by Jin_Saotome and stilt.. if u do fierce x 4, doom, hyper beam, its true that cable's recovered but doom still outside laughing. so its not 100% safe unless u super jump or do something w/ cable (grenade??) Well, you hit fierce and assist at the same time, so that the rocks are spinning around Doom during the pistol shots, flying across the screen during the Viper Beam, and colliding with the opponent while Cable puts his gun away and starts blocking. Doom gets out of there as soon as he's out of his rock-throwing pose, so he's safe, as long as this is done at full-screen, due to the timing. Posted by MarkyMark on 08:16:2001 02:07 PM: quote: Originally posted by Jin_Saotome basically a good cable/doom/commando owns everyteam... the only team that give it a lil more problem is magnus team -- Cody B. -- Like Magneto/Strider/Doom? *Grins* I also think Spiral/Sentinel/Blackheart would do pretty well against Cable/Doom/CapCom... Posted by StiltMan on 08:16:2001 11:38 PM: Spiral/Sentinel/BH is generally pretty good against Cable/Doom/Commando, yes. In fact, that's been my usual counter-team of choice for that matchup. Spiral kills Cable, Sentinel kills Doom, ggpo. It is true that starting Doom can throw a monkeywrench into that matchup if he can stay in Spiral's face... but if Spiral is able to establish the trap at full screen range, there's not much more he can do about it than Cable can... he can airdash out of BH's inferno and thereby escape the trap to some degree, and thereby get within Commando reach of her again, yes. He can make a match out of it, certainly, but I think that given equal talents and patience Spiral will generally win this if she has BH. If Doom has BH as well, though, different story. For Justin's team, Storm had alpha assist (horizontal typhoon). The main trap he was using was similar to the one that Fluffy described, with fierce/Storm/RP, fierce/HSF, repeat. Cables cannot AHVB that shit. If you had no meter, throwing drones after the RP probably would get there before Storm's typhoons finished, but it's a bit less repeatable. For using Cammy correctly, the thing you need to realize is that, although she's certainly not bad at controlling space, she's more of a defensive assist than a pure space controller. If you have a rush coming at you, Cammy cuts off basically all of the close range angles near the ground, to a far greater degree than any other assist that's able to reach into the air. You have to work around the fact that she stops at the first thing she hits, which means that if you have an opponent who drops assists on you and takes to the air to attack, you have to keep a little bit of distance to them, stop the threat before it develops, or be prepared to have Cammy stop the assist on the ground while your point char stops the aerial assault head to head. Her inability to control multiple threats in this way is one of the things that usually frustrates people who try to substitute her wholesale for Commando -- but by the same token, the fact that Commando leaves a lot of rushdown angles uncovered is what frustrates people like me who try to go with Commando in wholesale substitute for Cammy, too. Posted by sabretooth on 08:17:2001 02:29 AM: quote: Originally posted by StiltMan For Justin's team, Storm had alpha assist (horizontal typhoon). The main trap he was using was similar to the one that Fluffy described, with fierce/Storm/RP, fierce/HSF, repeat. Cables cannot AHVB that shit. If you had no meter, throwing drones after the RP probably would get there before Storm's typhoons finished, but it's a bit less repeatable. http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/sho...02&pagenumber=2 If you go to the thread above, or White's trendy teams one, you can see some explanations of things that can break that trap. cable on bench can CAHVB and Cammy on bench can counter into KBA. I learn lot from kdcmarvel's posts about counters. take a look! Posted by Sepehr on 08:17:2001 02:37 AM: StiltMan: you were at B5 right? well then could you clue me on how white's ironman, sent, pys did? did not he even use Dhalsim, ironman, Cyc? i know for the fact that his main team was spiral, sent, capcom but i was wondering how his other teams did??? Posted by sabretooth on 08:17:2001 02:41 AM: And can you give me some tips to use cammy assist better. I mena, how to use it against strider/doom or mags/psy or sent/bh or spiral/sent and this kind of stuff. My point chars are cable and storm. thanks a lot Posted by StiltMan on 08:22:2001 08:35 PM: Woohoo! A successful post! Now I'll edit it and finally answer some questions... white did not use Dhalsim/IM/Cyke in the actual tournament at B5 at all, to my knowledge. I saw a fair amount of that team in the goof-around matches for fun in the days leading up to the tournament, and there was a bit of IM/Sentinel/Psylocke in one match against Rodolfo Castro (which white lost), but pretty much all of the serious matches were Spiral/Sentinel/Commando. Cammy assist... well, the short way to put it is that Cammy-A is primarily a defensive assist, not an offensive one or a trapping one. She can be used to set a few things up, you can combo most things off of her that you can combo with Commando, but primarily, she's there to see to it that there are few or no angles your opponent can attack you from that won't get them cannon spiked, whether that's on the ground in the case of Magneto, Storm, or Strider, or in the air in the case of Doom, Sentinel, or Blackheart (to some degree). In this respect, she's far superior to Commando... there are a lot of angles that people can rush you or bomb you from if you have Commando that they can't with Cammy. However, she doesn't reach quite as high, as fast as Commando does, and if someone drops a helper right in your face on the ground and then goes to the air, that's essentially a human shield against Cammy. She also isn't as good at trapping people as Commando is, because of the solid wall. This is one reason why people who love Commando often don't like Cammy, and vice versa... they see a superficial similarity in them both and try to play them interchangeably, and they really don't serve the same purposes on a team at all, and you'll inevitably try to make the one you're not familiar with fit into the mold of the one you are and you probably won't be happy with the result. They're both excellent for controlling space, although they control the space a little differently due to the angles, and each of them can be shut down in different ways in doing so -- Commando loses almost any close-range head-on collision with other AAAs, whereas Cammy will only hit one target. I used to hate Commando, but it eventually occured to me that I was simply using him improperly... I was trying to make him work like Cammy does, and that just won't work. Conversely, a lot of Commando fans try to make Cammy replace him, and that doesn't work any better. My best two overall teams right now are BH/Sentinel/Cammy and Spiral/BH/Commando... and, for each respective team, the AAA I have on them works best, IMO. Posted by Truedragon on 08:22:2001 10:12 PM: Wow great thread. My question is the comparion of Cable/Doom/Commando and Cable/Doom/Bh and which one you think is better. Personally I believe with bh cable controls more space and does it better and as already discussed, cable/doom/bh also does better against spiral(in doom/bh). Cable/Doom/Bh is prob. your best bet figthing storm imo. calling doom, jumping back hp,grenade keeps(or forms of this, like if you see storm dashing in you can call doom jump back hk-if hits knocks into rocks which leads to ahvb-grenade mixed in with the same reg crap etc.) storm from rushing in. Cable/Bh is also your best bet against storm, if she's running smacking hp's that just lets you build meter for cable, which is a bad thing. If she starting typhooning bh aaa will catch her. I dunno it seems Cable/Doom/Bh handles matchups better and it's still basically the same game, minus commando.(and his assist punishing abilities) So: 1)which do you think is better and why? 2)what's the best order for cable/doom/bh(basically cable/doom/bh or doom/cable/bh) edit:3)What do you think of Cable/Storm/Doom? Posted by kdcmarvel on 08:23:2001 05:14 AM: I have a question for Stiltman: Did you read the private message that I wrote to you? If you didn't, please do so. If you did, please give me an answer. Of course I understand your reasons if you say no. Thanks in advance and sorry to bother you. See ya! Posted by ss on 08:23:2001 05:24 AM: whats the purposes of cable's tk grenades. to me , it seems that assists, psimitars or even j. back blocking are better options against opps coming from teh air. could you tell me what are the right moments to use it against the top tiers? thabks Posted by TexMex on 08:23:2001 06:01 AM: quote: Originally posted by ss whats the purposes of cable's tk grenades. to me , it seems that assists, psimitars or even j. back blocking are better options against opps coming from teh air. could you tell me what are the right moments to use it against the top tiers? thabks good question...I've been wondering exactly how to use Cable' grenades effectively and also when to do a tiger knee grenade and why. Also in a cable vs cable fight, whats the safest thing to do when both of you meet in air? should you simply just block? Posted by Mulliggan on 08:23:2001 06:49 AM: what would be the difference and also in your opinion a better team cable/doom/cap or cable/doom/cammy?? and also how would u play doom if ur cable did die prematurely with either capcom or cammy?? Posted by Murakumo on 08:23:2001 06:49 AM: Heya, if there are any question I can answer, I'll chip in too ^_^. I'm a NW player... though not proven to be that great yet... hopefully that's what this next tourney is for! Mebbe I can show that I'm actually a decent player... then again mebbe not, we'll see how it goes. ~Murakumo Posted by KRaZeEKoReaN on 08:23:2001 06:47 PM: a well deserved bump.... ill try to help out neway possible too cuz i am a NW player.. not so great though ^_^ Posted by StiltMan on 08:24:2001 04:42 PM: Doom/Cable/BH isn't a bad team... but you need to be prepared to mix and match which characters you use against which opponents to get its full potential. For instance, Doom/BH is widely known to be just brutal on Spiral. Another mix-around that I think gets nowhere near as much use as it should is the potential for reversing the order altogether on Magneto... normally I see people trying to start Cable on Magneto, and I can think of basically no Magneto team on the continent where that's better than putting BH in front. With Doom and Cable both behind BH, Magnus should never be able to meaningfully touch him. Most people who play this team tend to think of it as Doom and Cable's team, with BH as the assist... a lot of them don't even really know how to use BH, which is something of a shame, because as I think of it that's probably the one weakness that typical Doom/Cable/BH users have the most, is playing against Magneto with it. On the other hand, Cable/Doom/AAA does quite well against Magneto anyway, whether that's Commando or Cyclops in back. (see also Thong Nguyen vs. shadyk at B5...) The main place where Doom/Cable/BH is liable to be weak, though, is against Sentinel, who has a very strong shot at OCV'ing this team or at least tearing enough of it apart that his teammates can pretty trivially dispose of what's left. Cable is basically defenseless against any Sentinel that's able to get overhead... if he doesn't luck out and manage to bake a helper he's in deep sh*t. Doom has an absolutely awful matchup against any Sentinel team that has BH, and loses for free if Sentinel also has either Commando or Cammy as well. BH is in a little better shape than the other two, but isn't going to be able to chase Sentinel down on his own terms at all. Cable/Doom/Commando is going to basically need to have Cable beat Sentinel or it's over, but it still has a much better shot at it than he would with BH. Cable's tiger knee grenades are best used for situations where you're trying to protect a helper on the ground against something where a viper beam won't be safe. Cable hucks the grenade across, and he's able to block immediately because he's in a super jump, so he's not vulnerable to guard crushes. It's not 100% safe on another Cable but they're going to need inhuman reflexes to see it coming in time to AHVB it. As far as Cable/Doom/Cammy vs. Cable/Doom/Commando... I personally think Commando is probably better for this team, because Cable can use the extra altitude help that Commando gives you, as well as the trapping ability. In addition, it's far easier to work Commando into a ground chain into AHVBx3 (which will kill someone) than it is with Cammy, and Commando makes the matchup with Spiral marginally less ugly than Cammy does. Cable vs. Cable air-to-air... if you're at a distance, yeah, blocking is probably the best option. If you do a whole lot else you're asking to get AHVB'ed. If it's at closer range, the usual air chains are safe. Posted by ThunderForceGod on 08:24:2001 06:21 PM: Just found the sight guys..I guess I'll add my 2 cents if anybody is willing to listen. At least Drew-Dub knows the skills IZ Got.Cable/Doom/Capcom...Storm/Cable/Capcom Can give this team troubles. If Storm plays it safe and smart..Run away and nail assist with Hail storm then Doom is gonna get seriously hurt. This all in coordinance that Cable is not protecting the assist. Try to lure the assist out with Storm then nail it. After B5 I've been playing Storm on a serious tourny level. This tactic worked against Preston and Dave last night REALLY well. I prefer Capcom to Cammy because he is easier to protect than Cammy is. If the opponent is also Playing Capcom assist it then becomes a mind game between the two players....essentially who calls him out first is gonna get it. I also tend to like the lock down of Capcom on point and Sentinel ground assist. It make the rush down to FK throw soooo easy. For combos with Capcom it has to be Wk-Fk Capt. Sword For two reasons......1-It doesn't have the tendincey to barley damage the opponent and it does decent damage...2it sends the opponent to the other side of the screen(if he is not in the corner already) and Gives Capcom the chance to Rush down the throw or lock down rush with an assist. In fact in one on one there is not really anybody else Other than like B.Heart or Mags that can handle the bastard...of course this is MY personal theory and is not shared by others I assume. But it's Kinda funny when Preston is Terrified of my Commando and Nobody else HuH??? Guess I must be doing something right...I don't know....Drew-Dub...Seriously do I actually have a good Commando??? AWWW well everbody knows my best Character is Strider anyway... At B5 Duc said that he has not seen flying Sentinel played like Northwest Flying Sentinel...He is right. The Northwest has some of the best Straight Air Sentinel game I've seen. Nobody at B5 flew like the Northwest. It goes with our style I guess.Hell we even fly against Cable...and WIN!!!Of course if they Have Commando it gets tricky. My biggest weakness right now is B.Heart/Capcom....I REALLY hate that team. My Stratagey on that team is kill Capcom and you've just killed the heart of the team...depending on the 3rd person..whether it be Cable/Sentinel For that team Drew-Dub(MAJOR WORD UP) gave me some pointers(Like really I need it:cool If I use Storm I must have her assist on Variety and Cable or Sentinel or even Capcom on point to trap the SOB down.Watch him....closley You can AHVB in between the Inferno/ Heart of Darkness. Storm/Doom/Cable-Capcom..also work well against the big lug providing you can trap him with Doom ass. and "Crazy" Storm dashing...use this also to lure out Commando and then Typhoon/Hailstorm him. Becareful using runaway Storm on B.heart...Watch and listen closley for the AAA move or assist. Play it cautious. Storm can beat alot of teams.. I've seen this and now I know why she is TOP Tier..Ohhh wave dasing REALLY helps her game as well as anybodys... Posted by ThunderForceGod on 08:24:2001 06:36 PM: Quick note....Cable vs.Cable air to air....If they S.Jump toward you S.Jump underneath and Throw or vice versa. I prefer to Throw in that type of situation. If they are getting Predictable on the S.Jump Gun-Grenade..punish them hard.!!!!For me I'm quick and patient enough to where if I even see Cable start to draw his gun and I have Cable well...PEACE OUT CABLE!!!! In Drew-Dubs words!!!! Posted by Murakumo on 08:25:2001 06:13 AM: Hehe, when I was down in Portland, I OCV'ed a few ppz with my Commando... I was playing team Watts and Ron Chan said he hadn't seen good CapCom on point... so I was using him on point for a few matches. ^_^... Commando OCVs! ~Murakumo Posted by TheGreatWiseman on 08:25:2001 06:48 AM: TheGreatWiseman says: "It's nice that the NW had developed a nice team of Cable/Doom/Capcom. It's a good team...no doubt...but as time changes...the team is just too boring. The Wiseman used to play this team but after a while...it got uninteresting. That is one reason why people decided to do newer things such as developing the rushdown game in MvC2. The Wiseman remembers when he first started...a game of just traps..how boring...so therefore...various teams were developed. There's a reason why Japanese don't really play a Turtle style...cuz of the honor system...combos..and knowing how to counter your combos effectively(proven in ThirdStrike). There's more...but the Wiseman can't remember everything. Most NW teams are old to us...but still...those teams are still effective. Of all the NW players...I believe Rodolfo is the only one who is different from the rest of the NW players...(Magneto, Cable, Sentinel...*rocket punch assist). Interesting team....caught the Wiseman by surprise. Anyways...enough from me...keep practicing and trying out new sh1t." The Mark of a True Player Lies in his Heart Posted by Murakumo on 08:25:2001 08:23 AM: In a fight honor does not exist as you should do anything to win seeing as in a match what ultimately matters is life and death. The same holds true for this game. As for the some who may have some honor in this, where are they now? Umm, yea... where are the Japanese in MvC2???... pimped. Anyways, not everyone up here plays that team. In fact... I've never used it. Point being... who cares. Use what is effective whether it be a trap or rushdown. People didn't develop rushdown tactics from boredom, they developed them because they worked. And oh, one last thing... speaking ni the third person... nuh uh, you'll lose all credibility talking like that. ~Murakumo Posted by ThunderForceGod on 08:25:2001 08:48 AM: Just got done off of a 12 hour run with Preston and Dave. GODAMN Preston was scary tonight. I've never seen him play like that. I recorded all 12 hours to examine weakneses and tactics of our matches. In the end I had 19 wins-Dave had 7 and Preston...45. He had a 21 win streak with an accident team..Cable/B.heart/Capcom..He picked them by mistake...He uses Sentinel/B.Heart/Cable. That team is easier than than the other. Of course having trouble with the whole B.Heart/Capcom did not make it any easier. Preston would rather have Cable he says. My "Ajax" team(Because it is all purpose")Sentinel/Cable/Capcom was hurting him bad. Since we both start Sentinel it was whoever got Sentinel killed first was usually the loser. I made more mistakes than him...he was on it tonight. My Storm,still being young did all right for the most part. My Storm teams are usually Storm/Cable/Capcom/Doom/Sentinel. I did stop his streak suprisingly though with Magneto/Psylocke/Cable. Rushed that shit down. I really don't have anything special with Magneto but I am really learning. Most of the fights we all had usually ended up at least one of us using Capcom. I came back on Preston twice with him having at least 2 half full life bars of his team. My Commando simply dominated his Cable all night when they fought. Even when he still had assists!!! I did have troubles fighting against B.Heart though....as usuall. One match I started Commando on point against his Sentinel and worked it down to 25% energy and then I a fierce kick launcher...got hit by Hyper Sentinel Force. Poor Dave got his Cable with 100% life Killed By Sentinel in one Combo..poor guy was having a rough night. He did it to me once..then I started Tech. hitting the throw...HVB Sentinel right afterwerds in the air. Made him think twice about doing it to me. Theone thing I noticed that team Albany has not started to do other than me is Wave Dashing. That took them by suprise soo much. I was able to get in on them before they new what was up...it helped alot against B.Heart. Just gotta watch out for Capcom assist. James has really got a chipping team. It chips hella bad....Storm/Samurai/Doom. He hangs big time with this team. That godamn Lightning Super of Samurais hurts like a bitch and itreally wacks asistsGOOD. He'll work our teams good. It is his Tourny team. It is a contender. He chipped 50% of my life bar in 2 game ticks. I had Sentinel he had Samurai on point and Doom AAA. Combine Doom AAA with Shiruken-Super Shuruiken-Shuriken/Lightning super in a sandwich and you've got "Chips Ahoy" he earned his cookie for the night. Plus..DHCing into Storms Hail after Samurai Really sucks..You're gonna lose that Character more than likley. Oh well I gotta go and practice some more and watch the tape..Later!!!! Posted by ThunderForceGod on 08:25:2001 09:46 AM: Here is a good Sentinel 100% in the corner combo.---Fk launcher/4 hit air combo-Cancel flight/Fp throw/Wk+Capcom AAA+Mk Upper Rocket Punch/Fp throw again/Wk+Capcom AAA+mk Upper Rocket Punch. You've reset damage scaling and assist uses by using the throws. Another good one outside corner is to launch the opponent with Capcom/4 hit air combo/Rocket Punch. It hurts bad. For quick and painful assist punishment counter with Capcom/ Up SJ. Straight Rocket Punch. Use launcher if you have time.With launcher it does about 40% damage and Cable has a hard time retaliating. But watch out for B.Heart when doing this. You can do a grounded upward Rocket Punch-Cancel-HSF instead. Always try to work Commando in with ANY Sentinel combo. I got some funky ones but they're mine....Sentinel/Commando are a pair of bullys. Extemely nasty together and can quite easily OCV you're team. Oh and I've been thinking of putting Storm with Alpha assist in Strider-Doom...She would be point of course. What do you think???This team has no Anti-Air but oh well...Total Chip-Rush-Down team.!!!!With Storms assist to take out pesky Commando's so you can teleport in safely!! Posted by ss on 08:25:2001 04:31 PM: quote: Originally posted by StiltMan Cable's tiger knee grenades are best used for situations where you're trying to protect a helper on the ground against something where a viper beam won't be safe. Cable hucks the grenade across, and he's able to block immediately because he's in a super jump, so he's not vulnerable to guard crushes. It's not 100% safe on another Cable but they're going to need inhuman reflexes to see it coming in time to AHVB it. why not do sj. grenade instead? Playing Cable/Cammy, I'm feeling that I'm exposing he assist too much. With cyc or ken, I just call the assist and sjs, knowing that my opp will have to block it or get hit, and I can cover it with a sj. grenade. With cammy, if my opp just called an assist, she'll hit the assist, and my opp's character is free to move. If he immediately does AHVB or HSF or 100%DHC my Cable won't be able to do anything but block and Cammy will die, so how players like Justin do to protect his Cammy assist from be punished in this way? Posted by MarkyMark on 08:25:2001 11:29 PM: How do you all suppose Cable/Cyclops/CapCom would do against typical Seattle teams? Posted by KRaZeEKoReaN on 08:26:2001 01:10 AM: i was juss wonderin... not reallie a strategy question wut are da nicknames for some of the common teams out there: like team seattle is cable/doom/commando team watts is bh/sent/commando wtf is team uhhhhhh or wutever its called.. ive been hearin bout it wut bout magnus teams?? any names? Posted by ThunderForceGod on 08:26:2001 05:47 AM: quote: Originally posted by ss why not do sj. grenade instead? Playing Cable/Cammy, I'm feeling that I'm exposing he assist too much. With cyc or ken, I just call the assist and sjs, knowing that my opp will have to block it or get hit, and I can cover it with a sj. grenade. With cammy, if my opp just called an assist, she'll hit the assist, and my opp's character is free to move. If he immediately does AHVB or HSF or 100%DHC my Cable won't be able to do anything but block and Cammy will die, so how players like Justin do to protect his Cammy assist from be punished in this way? Maybe Wave Dashing under Stuff??? It is Very usfull. I used to get frustrated by a good Air Blackheart throwning demons all day but now I just wave dash under the things and trap him. Try wave dashing and in the middle or so call Capcom if you have it. It is just a suggestion though, it really depends in the situation you're in. I tried out my new Strider/Doom trap with Storm on point instead of B.Heart. It worked pretty good considering Storm/Doom cross-up rush took care of most of the team and if I got worried I DHC Hail into Orbs and start the trap. It got David at least 10 straight with him playing the likes of Cable B.Heart Capcom Doom Sentinel(He got infinited REAL quick by Strider) Magneto. What actually did work more than those teams was James and his Run away Storm/Samurai/Doom. In less than 3 seconds he chiped me with Samurai/Doom. Godamn....It is worse on a Sentinel. Anytime he called Doom assist to sandwich me it was not fun..it is even worse if the assist hits because I'm GOING to eat a Lightning Super and get wacked..and get chipped after that to kill me!!!!!!!! That team really has Potential. It does have it's weaknesses but you can find that out if you play against it. Posted by ss on 08:29:2001 05:33 AM: quote: Originally posted by ThunderForceGod Maybe Wave Dashing under Stuff??? It is Very usfull. I used to get frustrated by a good Air Blackheart throwning demons all day but now I just wave dash under the things and trap him. Try wave dashing and in the middle or so call Capcom if you have it. It is just a suggestion though, it really depends in the situation you're in. I tried out my new Strider/Doom trap with Storm on point instead of B.Heart. It worked pretty good considering Storm/Doom cross-up rush took care of most of the team and if I got worried I DHC Hail into Orbs and start the trap. It got David at least 10 straight with him playing the likes of Cable B.Heart Capcom Doom Sentinel(He got infinited REAL quick by Strider) Magneto. What actually did work more than those teams was James and his Run away Storm/Samurai/Doom. In less than 3 seconds he chiped me with Samurai/Doom. Godamn....It is worse on a Sentinel. Anytime he called Doom assist to sandwich me it was not fun..it is even worse if the assist hits because I'm GOING to eat a Lightning Super and get wacked..and get chipped after that to kill me!!!!!!!! That team really has Potential. It does have it's weaknesses but you can find that out if you play against it. Thanks for the info, but taht's not teh answer to my question. can soemone help with my paragraph above? thanks Posted by THE_LAW on 08:29:2001 07:24 AM: alright i got a question...if i'm playing cable/doom/comm....and my opponet has battery/cable/aaa. i kill his battery but now i have little or no metter...and his cable has like 3-4 meter what now... i'm fooling around w/ this team and i think its good but i figure maybe i'm playing them wrong? usually i run around and chip then AHVB point character whenever possible. i win my shear of matches this way but whenever cable is in second thats when i have the most difficulty, cause usually he comes in w/ way more meter then me. now the shoe is on the other foot and now i'm the one who is afraid to make a mistake. should i not go after point char. and just save my supers too kill his aaa in one shot...let me know thatnkxx Posted by Stormboy on 08:29:2001 09:37 AM: Hey northwest! maybe u guys can help me answer a few questions. How excatly do u play cable/doom/capcom (or Cable/Capcom) against an expert magneto? 1 mistake against magneto and it's either snapback, 50% non tempest combo or 100% multi-tempest combo etc? How do u get a magneto who's constantly traingle jumping you while evading your commando assist like 90% of the time? And the magneto gets free air throws cause you jump to evade him and guess what, he'll air grab you. Second, about the cable/doom trap: fiercex4 + doom assist, fierce viper beam When is a safe time to do this? (I press the fierce and A1 buttons together, like 4x to make sure doom comes out, or you would be asking for an ahvb otherwise..this is correct way?). Examples where the opposing player will be aware that you are going for this trap and can 1) jump back in the air and ahvb if cable, or 2) if magneto or storm, sj, airdash and combo u from behind. Like maybe after you make them block a grenade would be a good time to do it? Posted by SatanaXXX on 08:29:2001 11:07 AM: Hey...looking at all your posts I see BlackHeart, Cable, CapCom, Doom, Sentinel, Strider, Magneto, Storm, Spiral...and all the others?Does anyone use all the other bunch of characters or they are just junk?Like all street fighter characters, etc? Posted by Taramoor on 08:29:2001 11:26 AM: quote: Originally posted by SatanaXXX Hey...looking at all your posts I see BlackHeart, Cable, CapCom, Doom, Sentinel, Strider, Magneto, Storm, Spiral...and all the others?Does anyone use all the other bunch of characters or they are just junk?Like all street fighter characters, etc? I used Sakura/Guile/Tron/Rogue/Jin/Colossus at my first tourney, and got absolutely ruled. But now I actually know some more advanced strats, and think I could give the average player a run for their money. Sakura/Whoever/Whoever is my current team . If you know how they're going to play, you can counter them. That's why the best are the best, adaptation/improvisation. Sakura can counter Sentinel (or anybody really). Guile can work against Magneto. Rogue can break through Doom. Tron can hand the unsuspecting Cable a devastating loss. Jin can maul Blackheart. Colossus can thump Spiral. In a game where traps and infinites are so central to victory, it's more the players, and a knowledge of the game, than the characters. (Alot of people don't believe this, but I do.) Does Ironman have an easy infinite? Sure, but every infinite is easy once you get the hang of it. Is Strider/Doom the best trap in the game? Supposedly, but you'll never see it happen 100%. Every player makes mistakes, the thing is, are you good enough with the characters you use to fully capitalize on those mistakes? Use whoever you want. You CAN win, you just have to know how. Posted by StiltMan on 08:29:2001 05:17 PM: Cable/Doom/Commando versus Magneto: this is not a particularly bad matchup, actually. In fact, Magneto has to basically get lucky and/or take advantage of a pretty big slip-up by Cable to win this. Drop Doom and jumping back with a fierce basically cuts off the ground to him. If he calls an AAA to get Doom out of the way, he'll only do miniscule damage, because he can't do much damage of his own to Doom without getting AHVB'ed. If he tries to jump over Doom, he runs into the jb. fierce. If he tries to super jump and air dash, Cable super jumps with him and fierces him back down. Somewhere in here, he'll probably have to block a grenade, in which case the next iteration of Cable/Doom trapping is not likely to be far behind. If he calls an assist, punish it with Commando if you don't have meter and kill it with the AHVB if you do. If he ever runs into Doom's rocks, AHVB him. If he super jumps and you don't have an assist out, drop Commando and either super jump up yourself with a fierce/grenade or be ready to block. Every now and then, dash up and poke with Cable unexpectedly to keep him honest. If one of these pokes connect, chain into short/fwd/rh/Commando/AHVB-x-however... in most instances by the time you've actually landed a hit, you're only liable to need one or two meters to kill him with that combo. The general mindset is to cut off his angles of attack, so that if he ever does actually get a chance to touch you, you're going to see it coming a mile away and you're going to know exactly what direction it's coming from, so blocking it and getting him back out of there is not a serious issue. He's going to fall behind on chip damage pretty quickly, and you're going to be building up enough meter that if you get an opening in there somewhere, one of his characters is going to die before too long. And Magneto players are generally not patient when time goes on and they aren't landing any hits. Focus on just keeping it cool and shutting it down... it's not that hard to do with this team. Cable/Doom/Commando against another battery/Cable/assist, it's still much the same: shut down their angles of movement and attack, and build your own meter while you're doing it. If their battery is Spiral, you've got problems and should probably be starting Doom yourself (although Doom/Commando has his problems with a lot of Spiral teams, too). If their pattery is most anyone else, and the assist is anyone but Doom, your game plan doesn't change much. It sounds like you may not be conserving your meter well enough to fight the other Cable... with Doom and Commando around you shouldn't have needed much of it or of your lifebar to kill the battery unless it was Spiral. That's about the only battery char that really worries Cable on this team. Taramoor: giving up a list of characters doesn't really help a whole lot. Rogue has one of the better close-range rushing abilities in the game, possibly even the best, but getting close enough to someone to actually use it is a huge problem for her unless she's being used as a counter to Magneto. Guile is good for his AAA and basically nothing else. The Japanese players are saying that Sakura is top tier, probably by using Evil Sakura, but I'm going to file that one away in the same place as I did with Iron Man: I'm skeptical, and I think they'll have to learn the hard way. You might notice, rather significantly, that in white's latest post on the tier structure of MvC2, he no longer is trying to claim that Iron Man is one of the best couple of characters in the game. So I'll wait on Sakura until I see it proven. Tron is second tier on assist value, I'll give that, but she's not top tier by any stretch. Jin is also a decent assist and little more. And Colossus beating Spiral... uhhhh... no. That's a positively awful matchup for Colossus. Posted by Taramoor on 08:29:2001 07:05 PM: quote: Originally posted by StiltMan Taramoor: giving up a list of characters doesn't really help a whole lot. Rogue has one of the better close-range rushing abilities in the game, possibly even the best, but getting close enough to someone to actually use it is a huge problem for her unless she's being used as a counter to Magneto. Guile is good for his AAA and basically nothing else. The Japanese players are saying that Sakura is top tier, probably by using Evil Sakura, but I'm going to file that one away in the same place as I did with Iron Man: I'm skeptical, and I think they'll have to learn the hard way. You might notice, rather significantly, that in white's latest post on the tier structure of MvC2, he no longer is trying to claim that Iron Man is one of the best couple of characters in the game. So I'll wait on Sakura until I see it proven. Tron is second tier on assist value, I'll give that, but she's not top tier by any stretch. Jin is also a decent assist and little more. And Colossus beating Spiral... uhhhh... no. That's a positively awful matchup for Colossus. I was saying CAN Stilts, not DOES, because I've seen it happen. I was responding to the belief that you HAVE to use top or high-second tier characters to win, you don't. I've seen Colossus ram through swords to punish a lazy Spiral, I've seen Rogue crush an unsuspecting Doom, and my Sakura, without using any assists, has found an opening and managed to reduced Sentinel to scrap. When you reach a high enough level of play, it all depends on who makes that first crucial mistake, because that one slip-up will kill you. I'm not at that level yet, I won't be for a long time, but someday... As to the Sakura bit, I don't agree with white either... yet. But my Sakura's picked up a thing or, well, twenty since that first tournament. Realizing that D.Sakura's teleport has a negative recovery time is something that is very, very useful. Now if only my Doom was any good I might actually have a team... And to all those who say I'm just jumping on the bandwagon because of white's post. Sakura was the first character I used when I started playing MvC2, she's appeared regularly on my teams since, and she will continue to show up, no matter how popular or unpopular she becomes to everybody else. If I can't learn to win with characters I actually like, than why the hell should I play the game? Be well Stiltman. Posted by Dasrik on 08:29:2001 07:47 PM: quote: Originally posted by ss Playing Cable/Cammy, I'm feeling that I'm exposing he assist too much. With cyc or ken, I just call the assist and sjs, knowing that my opp will have to block it or get hit, and I can cover it with a sj. grenade. With cammy, if my opp just called an assist, she'll hit the assist, and my opp's character is free to move. If he immediately does AHVB or HSF or 100%DHC my Cable won't be able to do anything but block and Cammy will die, so how players like Justin do to protect his Cammy assist from be punished in this way? Same answer. Super jump. You'll probably have to do it a good time before Cammy actually hits. In general, though, relying on Cammy to punish assists is a bad idea. She is basically an offensive assist, not a defensive one. Posted by ss on 08:30:2001 04:48 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dasrik Same answer. Super jump. You'll probably have to do it a good time before Cammy actually hits. In general, though, relying on Cammy to punish assists is a bad idea. She is basically an offensive assist, not a defensive one. I think I didn't expressed myself well. I called Cammy to make my main opp. character blocks. But knowing that the range it's good to call her, he calls an assist to break cammy's way. If he doesn't needs to block, he can ahvb/100% dhc right away, so I have no time to sjump. It seems that the safer thing to do it's to sj just after call her, without even seeing if it's blocked or hits the assist. But, still, I can be locked down by a fast DHC since my grenade won't cover it or by a sj. AHVB against my point cable(where my best bet is ahvb too to trade hits). What do you think? And what about you, NW guys? Posted by ss on 08:30:2001 05:01 AM: Ok, I have cable/storm/cammy. my opp have storm/sent/cammy. I'm storm, he's sentinel. he does hsf, I do cahvb against it, but he dhcs to KBA. Can I do hail or kba and beat his kba? And what if, in reaction to this, he uses his own hail? Can I kba or hail this too? Who will be the final winner? I don't know if I explained myself very well, but see it this way. Sent, having Cammy and Storm in back, just did a HSF against me and I CAHVBed it. Now, considering that we both have 5 levels, which of the DHC specials will connect and lead it to a big combo. If it's one from my cable/storm/cammy team, it worths to do the CAHVB. I really would appreacate if someone could make this analysis to me. In fact, 2. My cable/storm/sent against storm/sent/cammy and my cable/storm/cammy against storm/sent/cammy, all of them at any DHC order Posted by ThunderForceGod on 08:30:2001 07:15 AM: If he does HSF and You AHVB, he is not gonna have much time to cancel into anything else..it really depends on when and where you VB. And if you DO have 5 levels..go ahead and hit with at least 2 VB then DHC into Hail if you think it is worth it..it all depends on you and making the right desicion for that situiation.. If the situation went down like this....HSF..you AHVB..as soon as he hear the BING sound..he DHC in Maximum Cammy(That is what I call her off the wall super)you better DHC into Hail.I would use Lightning Storm myself because if Cammy is too close she'll still hit you..Lightnig will get her fried. I don't use Cammy very much so I'm not 100% on her supers properties. For whoever asked about Cable/Commando against Magneto. THEY Better have Doom or else they will get eaten up. Just them 2 alone I think is a bad match-up. It is winnable..but so is Amingo vs. Sentinel...you don't see it that much is all.Paring Psylocke AAA against Magneto is not a bad idea either...just gotta look at the rest of their team. Posted by ss on 09:02:2001 06:43 AM: quote: Originally posted by ThunderForceGod If he does HSF and You AHVB, he is not gonna have much time to cancel into anything else..it really depends on when and where you VB. And if you DO have 5 levels..go ahead and hit with at least 2 VB then DHC into Hail if you think it is worth it..it all depends on you and making the right desicion for that situiation.. If the situation went down like this....HSF..you AHVB..as soon as he hear the BING sound..he DHC in Maximum Cammy(That is what I call her off the wall super)you better DHC into Hail.I would use Lightning Storm myself because if Cammy is too close she'll still hit you..Lightnig will get her fried. I don't use Cammy very much so I'm not 100% on her supers properties. For whoever asked about Cable/Commando against Magneto. THEY Better have Doom or else they will get eaten up. Just them 2 alone I think is a bad match-up. It is winnable..but so is Amingo vs. Sentinel...you don't see it that much is all.Paring Psylocke AAA against Magneto is not a bad idea either...just gotta look at the rest of their team. thanks. what about dhc kba vs dhc kba? anyone knows? Posted by TexMex on 09:02:2001 12:30 PM: quote: Originally posted by ss thanks. what about dhc kba vs dhc kba? anyone knows? That would look funny but they should just cancel eachother out right? Posted by ThunderForceGod on 09:03:2001 12:07 AM: Does anybody have any good anti-blackheart tatics or anti- Cable /B.Heart/Commando tactics? Posted by ThunderForceGod on 09:03:2001 12:34 AM: Hey,,,I think I was wrong about the Lightning Storm. It CAN hit her, but the best thing I would DHC into against the KBA would be the Hail storm. I guess that when Cammy does her KBA her hit area is only one pixel wide. My friend James let me in on this little secret. A DHC'ed Hail Storm is one of the only things that will tag her. Her speed on her KBA one frame to get across the screen from the wall! Scary!! Posted by SatanaXXX on 09:03:2001 12:54 AM: Hi there I'm still a newbie in MvC2 but a SF veteran. Thanx to this forum I've quikly become quite nasty with my team: Jill/Doom/Sentinel. Playing them a lot I understood that Jill should be in another team; she is damn strong, but has a completely different style than the other two that instead toghter work reaaaally well, so which you suggest is better with Doom-Sentinel? BlackHeart?Cable?Or who?Nothe that I'll NEVER use Storm or spiral since I hate them... Thanx for help Posted by Dilated Hadashi on 09:03:2001 03:31 AM: damn nice thread, love the insights and banter all around... my question is[and since you guys seem to know the west coast], who out there has the best psylocke out there? I remember some post way back talking about the lack of competent psyocke point players out there and I'm wondering- who in fact has a competent psylocke? about it really, makes me bitter that I'm stuck in the mid-west on a campus[UW-Madison] that lacks solid players.... though I hear ryu1999 is damn good, but till then Posted by Murakumo on 09:03:2001 03:48 AM: Seemingly not many poeple out here use her. I guess Ghengis's Psy was pretty good... but then again he was up here from Cali. I use Psy but hardly use her in... so I'm not sure. But, anyways, I think mine's not very special at all... just the normal Psy rushdown with the hp,xx,qcf+hp and qcf+lp after a missed launcher, mix it up while I assist with drones and then b+hk and hold forward to roll to the other side for the drones crossup into a combo. once I hit an air combo just do hre butterflies DHC'ed into either HSF, launcher, combo... or Time Flip, grenade, AHVB... or tempest, OTG c.lk,c.hk, hypergrav, combo. Depending on what character is following. Also her qcf+kk sucks for damage but can drop them into any of the other DHC'ed supers and has good priority. Mainly she just takes up the third slot. Most of my teams consist of two good characters and one "junk/semi junk" character. Very seldom are all three characters powerhouses, though I can use them effectively the third usually won't have a chance of OCV... ie: CapCom, Cammy(been gettin MUCH better... almost came back and beat the entire team of my last opponent in my second elimination last tourney against Strider/Doom/CapCom... and that was AFTER Storm and Sent died while dealing almost no damage so far... I so need practice vs. the Strider/Doom teams), Psylocke, Ken(vs. some trap teams). We've got a good number of CapCom players. So many people on the boards say he's utterly useless on point as where I see a decent number of people up here that CAN actually use him on point if it comes to it. I seem to use him pretty well in but I don't think to the extent of some of the others up here... but second tier is not worthless by any means... their assist provide a lot too. BTW, as in final answer to the question... my Psy I don't think would be considered compitent... I don't pick her to be used on point(then again the same could be said of commando and I seem to use him fine). If somebody lingerin' around here is a competent Psy player... I'd love to know how she's well used... so far she's just a setup character for my magneto teams... Mag/Cable/Psy and Mag/Sent/Psy. ~Murakumo All times are GMT. The time now is 11:02 PM. Show all 105 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.